23: Everything You Want to Know About Email Marketing with Shannon Vondy

My longest episode yet... But what can you expect from two email-obsessed squirrels?

Jun 05, 2025

You send one email, three people unsubscribe, and you spiral into thinking your entire business is doomed. We've all been there!

But what if I told you that your 20% open rate isn't actually the business failure you think it is? What if those unsubscribes aren't a personal attack on your character? What if email marketing is actually... not that deep?

In this episode, I sat down with Shannon Vondy (aka Mrs. Vondy), email marketing queen and fellow ADHD squirrel brain, to talk about all the technical email stuff you've been wondering about but were too afraid to ask. Shannon's been doing this for 15 years — 10 of which she spent avoiding email like the plague, so she totally gets the resistance.

We're diving into list cleaning, subject lines that don't suck, why people unsubscribe, and sooooo much more.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here's what we learned about Shannon in her round of squirrel brain chaos:

If she could gather "nuts" like a squirrel: T-shirts in every color imaginable, plus at least two or three in black and white because you may never find this exact shirt again. Also, email subscriptions. Shannon is a self-proclaimed "slut for a good email subscription" and a serial freebie signer-upper.

If her brain had a pop-up ad: A newer, updated, higher version of herself. We love a supportive inner voice!

If her life came with a warning label: "Caution: life will be a crazy fun adventure if you let it."

What she'd win an Olympic gold medal for: Writing subject lines. She didn't think she was a snappy one-liner person, but turns out she's damn good at writing subject lines that make people want to open emails. (We’ll get into how later!)

Something she thought she'd have figured out by now: Life. Period. Full stop. Just life in general.

Her walkout song: Anything from Chappell Roan, but specifically "Pink Pony Club.”

Email Marketing Actually Works (Who Knew?)

Let's start with the most important thing Shannon wants you to know about email marketing: it works.

Shannon's been in business for 15 years, and for 10 of those years, she didn't use email at all. She was convinced it didn't work for her photography business. Sound familiar?

But here's what happens when you show up consistently in someone's inbox: even if they're not opening every single email, they're seeing your name. It's free top-of-mind awareness. It's proof that you're a badass who knows what they're doing and you're committed to whatever you're offering the world.

Think about it this way. If someone sees your name pop up in their inbox every Tuesday for three months, and then they need exactly what you offer, who do you think they're going to remember? The person who's been consistently showing up, or the person who sent one email six months ago and gave up?

And here's the kicker — even if email "didn't work" (which it does), you still wrote that content. You can repurpose it as social media posts, blog content, or save it for your welcome sequence. You can even send the same email again in six months. Nothing is wasted.

The Best Email Platform Is...

…the one you'll actually use.

(I knew she would say that!!)

In Shannon’s case (and mine too), that platform is Flodesk.

When she found Flodesk, everything clicked. She could make her emails pretty and fun, which aligned with how she likes to do everything in her life.

The point of the story is that when you find a platform that doesn't make you want to throw your computer out the window, you'll use it consistently. And that’s what truly matters.

Shannon does have one platform she actively dislikes: Squarespace's email functionality. The segmentation options are limited, and it just doesn't give you the flexibility you need for proper email marketing.

Yes, You Have to Clean Your Email List

I know, I know. List cleaning sounds about as fun as organizing your junk drawer, but Shannon's obsessed with it for a reason.

How often should you clean your list? At minimum, once a year. Shannon recommends spring cleaning (literally), but if you experience rapid growth — like getting 200-1,000 new subscribers overnight from a summit — you might want to clean sooner.

Shannon became interested in this when she noticed her open rates starting to trickle down. She used to send emails on Fridays and have solid stats by the end of the weekend, but things were getting sluggish. So she cleaned off about 500 people, and boom — her open rates shot back up instantly.

But why does this matter?

When people stop opening your emails, it hurts your sender reputation. Email providers start thinking, "Hmm, nobody's interested in this person's emails. Must be spam." And then they start sending your emails to spam folders, which means even the people who DO want your content can't see it.

It's like having dead weight on your list. Those people who haven't opened an email in six months are actively hurting your ability to reach the people who want to hear from you.

When you clean your list, you're essentially telling email providers, "Hey, these people actually engage with my content," which improves your deliverability to everyone else.

It's better to have 500 engaged subscribers than 1,000 people who ignore you.

And if you’re not sure how to go on about this, check out Shannon’s resource, The Email List Detox.

Are Open Rates Just a Vanity Metric?

Let's talk numbers, because I know you're dying to know: what's a "good" open rate?

Shannon's answer might surprise you: it depends on your list size.

For most people (and if you're listening to this podcast, you probably fall into this category), an open rate between 20-30% is solid. Shannon's clients typically see around 40%, which is excellent.

But here's the kicker — if you have a massive list (like 30,000 people), a 20-30% open rate is actually incredible because that's potentially more people than someone with a smaller list has on their entire email roster.

For reference, I told Shannon my open rates average around 49% with 5,000 people on my list, and she was like, "You're smashing it." So if you're anywhere in that 20-40% range, you're doing great.

Buuuuut, open rates are not the be-all and end-all. They’re also kind of a vanity metric.

Shannon compared it to judging your Instagram success solely on likes. Sure, it's nice when that post gets 500 likes, but did it make you money? Did anyone buy your course because of that post?

Same with email. You could have a 50% open rate, but if no one's clicking your links or replying to your emails, what's the point?

What should you care about?

Click rates: The average is 1.9%, so if you're hitting over 2%, you're killing it
Replies: These are gold, according to Shannon
Engagement: Are people taking action?

So don't obsess over open rates. Pay attention to them, sure, but focus more on whether people are actually engaging with your content and taking the actions you want them to take.

Tips for Improving Email Deliverability

Alright, let's talk about getting your emails into people's inboxes instead of the dreaded spam folder. Shannon has three main strategies for improving deliverability:

1. Get Your Domain Verified

This became a big deal recently when email providers started cracking down on spam. You know those random emails from weird Gmail addresses you never signed up for? They're trying to stop that.

Gmail, Yahoo, and other providers now require you to have your domain verified in your email platform's backend. Translation: instead of sending emails from sara@gmail.com, you need to send from sara@betweenthelinesopy.com.

Shannon had a client whose emails weren't being delivered properly, and as soon as they connected her domain, it fixed everything instantly. If you have fewer than 100 people on your list, you can probably get away with Gmail for a little while, but you'll need to upgrade eventually.

2. Only Email People Who Actually Want Your Emails

This seems obvious, but you'd be surprised how many people mess this up. Shannon used to think she could just email anyone she met. Turns out you can’t!

It's actually illegal to add people to your email list without their explicit permission. That means no adding people who fill out your contact form, no adding podcast guests, no adding people you met at a networking event. They have to specifically opt in.

I've been added to people's lists after being on their podcast, and it's the cringiest thing ever. Don't be that person.

3. Keep a Clean List

We already covered this, but it bears repeating: having people on your list who don't engage hurts your deliverability.

Pro tip: If you want to capture inquiries for your email list, Shannon suggests redirecting people to an opt-in page after they fill out your form, rather than automatically adding them. That way, they can choose to subscribe with their preferred email address, and you're not forcing anyone into anything they didn't ask for.

The goal here isn't to trick people into joining your list — it's to build a list of people who genuinely want to hear from you.

How to Get Those Coveted Email Replies

Want more people to engage with your emails? Shannon's got one simple rule: stop giving away everything.

Many people tell you everything in the email. Like, everything.

Instead, focus on creating intrigue. Give people a reason to click!

Shannon sees this mistake constantly with sales emails too. People will put their entire sales page in the email and then say "go to the sales page." Like... why? You just told them everything. What's their incentive to click through?

For getting replies, Shannon's strategy is to make it stupid simple:

Don't ask big, complicated questions. People are reading emails in the coffee shop line or while waiting for carpool pickup. They don't have the mental bandwidth for essay questions.
Use multiple choice. Instead of "What's your biggest struggle with email marketing?" try "Reply with A, B, or C" and give them options.
Ask yes/no questions. Shannon literally asked her list "Do you still want to be on my email list? Take two seconds to reply and let me know." And people actually replied!
Give a time frame. "Take two seconds to reply" makes it feel manageable.

The key is remembering that people aren't sitting at their computer thoughtfully reading your emails. Make it easy for them to engage.

Even negative replies are good for you from an algorithm perspective. So when someone replied to my workshop email with "What is this, the streets?" after I said I put my whole ass into planning it... technically still engagement!

Let's Talk About Unsubscribes

I know you're spiraling every time someone leaves your list.

First, let me tell you about my recent experiment. I sent a fuck ton of emails for my newsletter workshop — minimum two per day, sometimes three. I ended up with 86 unsubscribes, but I also gained 90+ new subscribers, so I actually came out ahead. Shannon said that's really good numbers considering how many emails I sent.

But here's the thing: I don't give a fuck if you unsubscribe.

That bothers me 0%. There's the door. Have a nice life.

If one week of me selling something is going to annoy you enough to unsubscribe, you were never going to buy from me anyway.

Think about it: if someone was genuinely interested in purchasing from me in the future, would a few extra sales emails really piss them off enough to leave? No. They'd either delete the emails, move them to promotions, or just take it with a grain of salt because they're interested in what I offer.

Shannon's unsubscribe wisdom: 95% of the time, it's not personal.

People unsubscribe because:

They have too many emails in general
Their life circumstances changed
They're not interested in your services anymore (which is fine!)
They don't remember who you are
They signed up with multiple email addresses and are cleaning house

Shannon's store analogy is perfect: If you had a brick and mortar store and five people walked in, and one person left without buying anything, would you chase them down the street asking why they left? Or would you focus on the four people still shopping in your store?

Stay in your store. Take care of the people who are there.

If you have 100 people on your list and 5 unsubscribe, that means 95 people still want to hear from you. Focus on them, not the 5 who left.

And here's a story that will change how you think about unsubscribes forever: Shannon's friend had someone unsubscribe, then months later re-subscribe and email her saying, "I had to leave because I found out I had cancer and needed to clear everything out of my life. But your emails were the ones I missed and kept thinking about."

You just don't know what's going on in people's lives.

I had a guy at a networking event tell me he unsubscribed from my newsletter because there was "so much good information, I couldn't take action on it and I felt overwhelmed." He literally unsubscribed because my content was too valuable for his current capacity!

Subject Line Do's and Don'ts

Next up, let's talk about the thing everyone overthinks: subject lines.

Shannon's golden rule: "Would I open this?" That's literally her only test. If she would open it, it's probably good.

The Don'ts:

Don't go emoji crazy. Shannon loves emojis (she uses 1-2 per subject line), but don't turn into Wayfair with emoji city. It starts looking spammy. And never replace words with emojis because they might not load properly — your "👕 sale" might just look like "sale" to someone reading on shitty WiFi at the post office.

Don't make them too long. Shannon aims for under 7 words. Remember, Gmail chops off subject lines, especially on mobile.

Don't overthink swear words. If swearing is part of your brand voice (like mine), feel free to use it occasionally. But Shannon's right — I'm not swearing in every subject line because that's dramatic even for me.

The Do's:

Make it intriguing without being clickbait. You want people curious, but don't promise something you don't deliver. Your goal is to make people think, "Wait, what? I need to know more."

Remember that consistency matters more than perfection. Eventually, when you email regularly and build trust, your subject lines become less important because people just open emails from you automatically.

Have fun with it. Find something goofy you're talking about in your email and use that as inspiration. Shannon's recent subject line was "everybody poops" with the poop emoji, and mine was "I'll be the hot girl in gray on her computer."

A note about A-B testing: Shannon doesn't do it much because Flodesk doesn't make it easy, but if you do test, only change one variable at a time. Otherwise you won't know what actually worked.

The most important thing is to just send the damn email. If your subject line is boring, you can always resend with a different one. But a sent email with a mediocre subject line beats a perfect email that never gets sent.

Segmentation for Beginners

Finally, let's talk about segmentation — because I know some of you are spiraling about whether you're doing it "right."

Shannon's approach is refreshingly simple: track what people are interested in.

She creates waitlists for upcoming offers and sends emails to her list saying something like, "I have this offer coming, click here if you're interested." Then she knows exactly who to focus on when it's time to sell.

For example, if 20 people are interested in learning about subject lines but only 10 are struggling with actually sending emails, she knows to create more subject line content.

But here's Shannon's most important segmentation advice: if you're just starting out, don't get hung up on this.

Just start collecting people and focus on being consistent. You can always segment later. Shannon would rather you send a weekly newsletter without any segmentation than get paralyzed trying to create the "perfect" system.

Simple segmentation ideas for beginners:

Where they came from (Instagram vs. Google vs. referral)
What they're interested in (specific topics or offers)
Where they are in their journey (just starting vs. established)

The key insight: You don't have to email segments separately. Sometimes segmentation is just about understanding your audience better. If you know most of your traffic comes from Instagram but none from Threads, that tells you something valuable about your content strategy.

Point of the Story

Email marketing doesn’t have to be that complicated, and your open rates aren't a reflection of your worth as a human. Stop overthinking it, start being consistent, and remember — the people who unsubscribe weren't going to buy from you anyway.

Shannon Links

Follow Shannon on Instagram
Check out her website
Clean out your email list with The Email List Detox
Join her membership, The Email Club
Check out all her resources and offers here
Shannon’s walkout song

BTL Links

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